/-----------------------------\
                                        | Xine - issue #3 - Phile 006 |
                                        \-----------------------------/

Interview to OWL[FS]
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Here is an interview IKX made to Owl, the leader of the Feathered Serpents.
Enjoy reading!


iKX> Before we begin...

I would just like to mention that everything said by myself within this
interview is a representation of my views only and not of any Feathered
Serpents other than myself.

iKX> So tell our readers something about you, a few words of introduction!

I am Owl of Feathered Serpents.  I believe in funky things like auras,
UFOs, Atlantis, pole shifts, undiscovered Great Pyramid/Great Sphinx
rooms, and much related material.
 
iKX> Why did you select your name?  Did you have others in the past?  Why
     did you change?

I used to be known as Methyl.  After much consideration, I decided that,
to recognize my mental and spiritual growth, I would change my name.  I
also never liked being associated with chemical substances.

As for Owl being my chosen name, Owl is significant of many things that
reflect my personality and beliefs.

We are all animals from the same source, mother earth who herself is a
part of the great celestial dance that is our galaxy and our universe.
This is a simple elegant truth that I try to spread, if everyone wakes
up to it, the world will be a better place.  We must treat all of nature
with love and respect.

The Owl is an animal highly skilled at hunting, due in particular to their
excellent sight.  They are also commonly associated with wisdom, and the
imagery that a bird creates is that of freedom.  I wish to associate all
these essential components of the Owl.

Owls are a common screen memory for those who have been visited by the
Greys, one of the many alien races investigating our planet, but the
Greys are considered by many (if not most) to be evil.  I don't like
Greys.  I am an Owl, mother nature's hunter, and I hunt the Greys.

iKX> First a little about yourself in the other (some define it 'real')
     life. Describe a little yourself physically, morally and so on...

I am of a small build, long blonde hair, I wear an eagle feather in my
hair which has coloured beads that make up the sacred colours of the
native american indian.  I love the look of an expensive suit, but I am
too poor to own any. 

I basically run a computer store (selling, building, fixing computers).
This line of work is not for me, as I don't take well to customers who
obviously try to make things hard for me.

This work is only temporary.  I plan to branch out to what I really want
to do, programming.  Or maybe there's something else out there for me to
do that I just haven't discovered yet.

Socially I am rather pathetic.  I don't have any real life friends, in
fact, people generally avoid me.  Girls, don't even get me started on
girls.  They avoid me like the plague.

I love ferns, cats and lemurs.  Actually, lemurs are quite popular to a
certain race of aliens, though I'm not sure which.

iKX> Do you have some favourite kind of music, film, book, sport, event,
     place or something?

I have an abnormal love for classical music, listening to it every day on
my way to and from work.  I have no specific love for various musicians,
but I have a passion for long drawn out sad peices with violins.

My favourite place is a place that doesn't exist, a forrest of large
trees with ferns everywhere, near a small clear pond with a few fish
moving about in it, slowly, searching for insects near the water, with
water trickling down slick mossy rocks.  A few lillies here and there,
maybe a small green frog or two, while Owls whoot quietly into the
twilight.  I want to be there, languidly tapping my fingers into the
edge of the water and watching the light reflect from the ripples.

iKX> How do you usually spend your days?

Working.  I don't seem to have any time for anything else, even myself.  I
seem to just collapse after coming home from work.  This is why I really
want to change my line of work.  This is just too much for me.

iKX> Are you married or have a girlfriend maybe?

No.  Girls don't like me.  Sure, when I say that they gang up on me and
say I'm just looking for attention and that I'm not ugly.  But as if any
of them would even come near me, let alone go out with me.  I don't like
to group people into stereotypes, but all females act exactly like that
and their hypocritical nature makes me sick.

iKX> What are your goals in your personal life if any?

To dress better and become more in tune with nature.  To propel Feathered
Serpents into the future, and make our voice heard.  To participate in an
industry that I have something tangible to offer.  To find a female that
actually likes me.

I also want to survive into the next century.

iKX> Well, how did you started with computers?

My interest in computers really started in primary school.  I recieved a
battered old magazine with source code to a simulation of Haleys Comet as
it surges through our solar system.  I convinced teachers of my school to
let me into the computer room during lunch times to type the whole thing
in.

Of course that never happened, once I was let in front of the computers I
started typing in game source codes from books.  I got a hold of computer
manuals (they were BBC MICROs) and started learning how those programs
actually worked.

By some fluke of luck, one of my mother's boyfriends at the time was a
technician in our telephone company, and gave me an IBM XT computer with
something like a huge 40 meg hard disk and a green and black monitor.

That was mainly for games, as was the AT with an EGA monitor I recieved a
year later, and the 386 with 4 megabytes of RAM after that.  Then, my 
mother and the person broke up, and since then I've landed a stolen 386DX40
with an SVGA monitor, then a 486DX2-66 (which I bought 2nd hand), and now,
an Intel Pentium 233MMX (paid for by me).
 
iKX> Which programming languages do you code and which do you prefeer?

Assembly, Java, C++.

I really like assembly language, the structure of it on an Intel is really
good for me (although I hear it is nicer on other processors).  The thing
is, however, that I really don't like the whole architecture of current
systems.

Take a look through Ralph's interrupt listing, and just check out what
variables there are in segment 40, the BIOS segment.  There is just so
much junk there that it makes me sick, just like all the leftovers a 386
processor has to deal with to stay compatible with AT and XT systems.

Computers would be so much better if they just started from scratch and
made things the way they should be.  They'd be much faster, too (the same
applies to certain operating systems, like Win95).

As for C++, C++ is really nice, the designers did a good job.  JAVA is
nice, maybe too familiar with C++ for me to like, and it demands some
whacky things.  Certainly not as bad as it could be, and definately not
as ground breaking as some people say it is.

iKX> When and how did you started writing (or examining) viruses?

It would have been around 1992/1993.  I happened across a copy of Stoned
on a floppy disk and found someone on a BBS through a mutual friend who I
traded lots of viruses and 40HEX magazines with.  That was right about the
time the VLAD magazines were being released, so I read those and a few old
TASM manuals fell into my hands (back in the days when they actually had
whole chapters devoted to how to program in ASM).  Then I wrote my first
two viruses.

iKX> Why do you write viruses at all?

Now, I think it is built into my very psyche.  Virus writing defines me,
it is a part of me.  There's no need to question myself as to why I write 
them, I just do and I could never give it up.

iKX> How long have you been active in the virus scene?

I have been interested in viruses for the past 6 or 7 years, but one could
comment that I have only really been in the 'scene' for the past 3 or 4.
 
iKX> About how many viruses have you written up to today? Which should you
     expecially mention for our readers?

I haven't really written much in the way of actual viruses, and definately
nothing that I am proud of.  I really just do the technology and hope that
others will use it.  But I do plan on partaking more in virus authorship
in the near future.
 
iKX> How do you name your viruses?

I name them depending on the emotions I am feeling at the time, which are
mainly the reason for me writing the virus in the first place.  Otherwise,
I will just think up something that makes a statement.

iKX> Do you like a specific type of virus?

It seems a simple question, but it has made me think.  I am partial to
assembly language viruses, viruses done in other languages don't really
interest me.  I like innovative techniques which actually aid a virus
in surviving in the wild, rather than the stupid things some people do
which just help reveal the virus...

iKX> What does a virus need to get in the wild in your opinion?

The only two things a virus needs to do to live in the wild are stay
undetected, and spread.  Simple.  Lets break it down:

	Spread:  Infect executables widely in use at the time, using
                 fast methods (ie: whenever a user accesses program)
        Stealth: Be as compatible as possible with the OS so that the
                 user doesn't notice the virus, and panic.  Next, if
		 the user does panic, make sure the AV does not find
		 you (use metamorphism, etc).  Finally, if an AV does
		 find you make it hard or impossible to find ALL 
		 mutations of the virus, and hard or impossible to 
		 remove the virus from infected executables.

iKX> Should a "good" virus be implemented in the future?

By good I assume you mean usefull.  Sure, usefull viruses are... usefull.
But what is usefull to me might not be usefull to you.  Usefull to me is
something that makes United States NSA/DOD scared.  Why, what is usefull
for you?

I think "good" viruses, or rather, autonomous agents, could be really
helpfull in systems like UNIX, carrying out various package upgrades,
that would just waste the time of a system administrator.  

iKX> What are your goals in virusing?

To create better viruses capable of living in the wild for longer, which
means that they can actually be usefull.

iKX> Do your friends/family know about you as a virus writer? What is
     their opinion about this?

I don't have any friends, and my family wouldn't understand.

iKX> By being a virus writer, has your real life been affected in some
     way that would not have happened had you never been interested in
     viruses?

Definately.  I do not live two seperate lives like some people.  Knowing
about viruses makes me who I am.  My personality would be completely and
utterly warped without viruses.

iKX> What do you think about destructive viruses?

Destruction theories basically come down to this.  Random destruction
does nothing to help a virus spread.  Planned destruction can do what
a virus was created to do in the first place (ie: destroy a targetted
system), and if executed in a calculated matter, could even propogate
a virus deeper into systems and increase infection rates.

iKX> What's your opinion about wordmacro viruses? What about virus
     generation kits and such?

Virus Construction Kits are like anything else, they can be really
good, or really bad.  I don't think they really have much of a use,
except maybe to teach some people who know nothing of viruses, how
to make them, by generated source code.  Also, the idea of a virus
that carries a VCK in its code and pops out new viruses instead of
replicating is a funky idea.

As for macro viruses, they definately work.  They don't seem to have as
many capabilities as other forms of viruses but that's due entirely to the
limitations imposed by the macro programming language itself, just like
writing a virus in BASIC.  I don't dislike macro programmers, but I do not
think macro viruses are going to last in the wild much longer.  They are
too much of an issue, I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft dumped the
entire macro idea.

iKX> You became quite famous with your great articles and research about
     tunneling.  What is the present situation with tunneling?  What
     about the future?

Tunneling under DOS was needed for only one thing, to avoid restrictions 
imposed by TSR behaviour blockers in memory.

Win95 imposes many restrictions, and there are more commercial AV for
Win95 than there ever was for DOS.  The need for tunneling (API rather
than interrupts, however) is still there.  But how?  

That is where the future is headed, how to tunnel Win95 APIs.

iKX> What do you think about polymorphic engines?

There are too many polymorphic engines out there specifically designed to
be compact and annoying and provide little to no protection for the virus
whatsoever.  It's only really worth it if you are doing something special,
like Uruguay's engine.  It's not that I don't like little engines, they
are neat programming exercises, but for cloaking a virus, the main idea
of writing a polymorphic engine anyway, they are no good.
 
iKX> But what do you see in the future of polymorphism?  What are your
     views on polymorphic implementation and theory (talk to us about
     RHM polymorphism)?

I think polymorphism is still important even with the advancement of
metamorphism already upon us.  Metamorphism is nice, a decent engine
can produce a nearly infinite number of virus variations, but if you
are not carefull, instruction expansion will be what an AV looks for
as it scans for your engine.  Besides metamorphism takes a long time
to master, and a decent emulation system will slice through it just
like a standard unencrypted virus.

RHM Evolving Polymorphism was to slow polymorphism as that was to standard
polymorphism.  The thing is, that under any close scrutiny, any form of
slow polymorphic engine is just as easily detected by an AV as any other
of equal complexity.  They both work the same way, it just means an AV has
to make sure they disassemble each polymorphic engine to detect every
possible output.

RHM is not limited to polymorphic engines however, it was just a simple
way of showing how a computer virus can have something similar to genes
and how it can combine them with genes from another virus.  The real test
of RHM will be not in hiding viruses from AV, but rather, from hiding the
virus from the user of infected systems, by altering virus functions to
those that fit in with the user's habits.

iKX> What do you say to any beginners reading this interview?

Three simple things to remember:
        a) There are as many if not more bastards in the virus "scene"
           than there are in the real world, and if you want to kill
           any of them, don't feel bad, we all do.
        b) Don't give up on viruses because they are too complex.  By
           starting from the bottom and working your way up, you are
           doing exactly what everyone else did to reach the top, and
           so you should reach the top too.  Virus writing can enrich
           your life.
        c) Trust Owl.

iKX> Which is the greatest virus writer in your eyes?

No comment.

iKX> Where is virus writing heading?

Viruses have a long way to go, but personally, I think that things are
going to move very slowly as the world becomes more frantic.  Work work
work is what society demands from us, and the time we have to ourselves 
to work with viruses just becomes shorter and shorter.  Meanwhile, new
people become interested in viruses and have time on their hands, but
things get more complex as time goes on and you need previous experience
that takes just too long to gain.

iKX> What do you think about the actual VX scene? It is going somewhere or
     just always there?

There is no scene, there is just alot of people who are loosely grouped
together by others because they say they are interested in viruses, and
even that is not always true because many people you would think of as
being in YOUR scene aren't really interested in viruses at all.

iKX> What is your opinion about current VX groups around and what about
     the various VX zines?

The only real virus groups out there are 29A, SLAM, and FS.  Now I
know I excluded iKx from that list, but as your name shows, you are
into information exchange rather than just viruses.  Also, I know
I have not mentioned LT or IRG.  LT has no members, and I have not
heard of anything from IRG in the past year.

As for what I think of them, let me begin with SLAM.  I haven't sat
down and read any SLAM magazines.  They were originally known for 
their macro viruses, and now they are focused on assembly language.
All that SLAM needs is some new fresh members.

As for 29A, I really don't like them because of what they did in
their first magazine, presenting lots of viruses with techniques
that have already been done long before, and claiming credit for
them.  Also, while most 29A members have been quite friendly to
me ever since creation of 29A, it is increasingly evident that a
select few members are extremely arrogant.

However, I do accept that some people are just arrogant bastards,
and I accept that 29A#1 was their first magazine and I recognize
that for some of their techniques it would be extremely difficult
to know if other viruses had incorporated them.  In short, these
cancel each other out and I am left indifferent to 29A, reserving
my opinion for the delayed release of their 29A#2 magazine.

iKX> Let's talk about your new group, the Feathered Serpents. Why
     was the group born?  Tell us everything!

Feathered Serpents was born to accelerate the pace of learning of
members.  We can do things as a group we couldn't dream of doing
alone.  Individually we don't have to worry that we can't publish
every document we ever wanted to write, because likely there is
another group member already doing one.  The group is also a voice
for us all to be heard on issues that are important to us.

As for members, we are a complete mix of people.  Yosha and Random
from Living Turmoil, myself from Immortal Riot/Genesis, Tornado is
from Dark Conspiracies, while Pockets and Lych haven't been in any
other groups.  Pockets is the vice president, basically if anything
happens to me, the group is in the capable hands of Pockets.

Our group has many advantages over other groups.  For one, no other
group has any members of FS.  The main condition of entry in FS is
that we allow members in no other groups, so that there are no, let
us say, conflict of interests.  FS has heavy internal structure and
communication between group members.  We carry out training exercises
to complete goals which generally lead the group as a whole to new
heights of coding ability.

FS is something special and seperate from any virus community or
scene that you can think of.  We are Feathered Serpents.

iKX> Where should the readers get more infos/news about your group? Is
     there a page where they should look at or a mail where to reach you?

US.UNDERNET.ORG #VIRUS on IRC ;)  We have a home page but are working
on a stable address. 

iKX> How are your contacts with guys from other groups?

I have enough associates in other groups to get me by.
 
iKX> What do you think about all those guys trying to describe virus
     writers?  Describe in a few lines the typical virus writer from 
     your own personal experience?

I don't think there is a workable stereotype for the virus writer.  I
don't appreciate people who try to make one because they obviously do
not have any idea of what makes a virus writer.  I know virus writers
who are and are not: friendly/social/arrogant, racist, geeks, smart,
hackers/phreakers, etc.  I know just as many virus writers who are
completely screwed up, as I know ones who would be considered even
upstanding members of the social order.

iKX> What does the local laws in the country where you live say about
     viruses? Do you care about them?

Law.  If the rules of society were so clearly cut, we would not need
judges and juries to condemn people.  We have lawyers to decode the
law because normal people just can't understand it because it is too
complex and too full of case histories.

Law is useless anyway.  Let's face it, if you rub the government the
wrong way, your very existence will be destroyed right away from the
public eye (the public are asleep anyway).

As far as I'm concerned, even if you did something good, like develop
one of those water powered car engines, the government will be out to
get you or censor you for something.

As far as I know there are no virus laws around here, and if there are,
there's nothing I can do to stop myself writing viruses, it is part of
my nature.

iKX> Do you have also experiences in other underground activities such as
     hacking, phreaking or something else?  What do you think about that
     scenes?

No I don't have any experience in any of those areas.  I would like to
hack and phreak, however I realize that if I spread myself thin, other
areas like virus creation, will suffer.  Those interests are important,
just as much as virus writing is.  However virus writing is part of me,
hacking and phreaking are things I wish to learn the basics of, simply
because they would be good survival tools.

iKX> Which AV product do you like best and why?  Which do you piss off
     most?

I don't like ANY AV product.  I won't specifically target them, that
is a waste of space.  Better to keep virus anti-AV code generic.
 
iKX> Do you have contacts with AV guys maybe? How do you consider them? Do
     you specially admire some or specially hate some?

I have no AV contacts.

I think it would be reasonably hard to sit and decode a polymorphic engine
with just the binary code, and then come up with a workable algorithm to
detect that engine.  I really admire the people who do that all day long.

iKX> Where is the AV industry heading?

I think things are going to keep progressing as they always have
been.  New OS's will be released, AV vendors will sell packages
promising things that aren't delivered.  Technology becomes faster
and bails the AV out of increasingly sluggish performance.  And
the cycle repeats itself.

iKX> What should AV guys in your opinion improve in their shitware?

Emulation systems are the only AV technology that is usefull where
metamorphic viruses are concerned, and as for polymorphic viruses,
you need to bypass the encryption layer before you apply heuristics
and that also means you need an emulation system.

As the number of decent viruses increases, the AV will need to
organize their employees into think tanks that disarm and code
protection against each specific virus, while some staff that
is left over can handle any new obselete DOS viruses, etc.

iKX> And now here you can write everything you want, free space won! :)
     Thanx again Owl!
 
Life is a journey, I don't think that anyone should confine themselves
to one set of beliefs and stick by them stubbornly for no reason.  I
also think that too many people devote too much time to disproving or
trashing others, just for personal satisfaction.  Stop doing it.

Thanks to iKx, for the opportunity to be known in their magazine ;)