The AV (Anti-Virus peoples) have this image of the clean cut crusaders against the 'evil' virus writers. Well, I thought I'd throw a few of my thoughts at you (If you don't like it... bad luck! :) If you have ever read the fidonet 'VIRUS_INFO' or 'VIRUS' echoes you will have noticed the incredible number of dickheads that populate them. They continuously make analogies between viruses and guns and try to push the view that virus writer = murderer. Now that's overdoing it! At most viruses are a nuisance (the ones I do anyway) If anyone gets a virus all they have to do is use some virus-cleaner (when it comes out) and remove the virus and it's gone! No hassle! Nothing damaged! I don't feel guilty for anything that I have done that's for sure. The AV are firm beleivers in 'totalitarian' style discussion. Where if you agree with them you may speak but if you don't, you may not! They are sturn priests watching the morals of 'cyberspace'. Unfortunately for the AV, 'cyberspace' is fine on it's own and doesn't need their help. If their goal of banning virus programming comes true then the VX will go completely underground - and there is nothing they can do to stop it. That is the worst thing that can happen from the AV point of view. The fact is that the best phorensic expert the feds can produce wouldn't have a chance of proving someone programmed a virus. There's no bloodstains, or footprints. We won't be caught! Any laws would be completely useless! The AV say 'it's the principal'. Virus programmers often give their creations to the AV programmers early on, because most of us aren't malicious. But after any laws are passed, kiss all this goodbye! The only way the AV will get virii will be off infected computers. No more cooperation! They don't actually beleive that programmers will stop because of some law ?! It won't happen! Cyberspace is free! and almost impossible to police! So leave us be! As it is, the AV are responsible for alot of the viruses that go around. When one of them finds some hot-shit polymorphic, multi-partite, VGA card infecting, S3M infecting, ROM writing virus they give it to their AV mates all over the world and sooner or later you'll see the virus filtering down into the VX and into the computers of the general public. Take pathogen or skid-row as perfect examples of this. The fact is, the AV aren't very good at keeping control of viruses. Knowing this what gives them the exclusive right to keeping virii ? I don't really care about the spread of viruses, I am judging the AV by their own standards. The AV are the biggest hipocrits in cyberspace. They disagree with the exchange or spread of virii but it is fine as long as it is within their own 3li73!111 (eLiTe) group of AVer's. Be sure that VLAD will be in there fighting for freedom of information about viruses regardless of what happens.